Be a Productive Leader – Scott Fulton

miriam: [00:00:00] Hey friends, today we have a special guest, was it last week that we met? I did your podcast the Rebel Diaries podcast. And then now we’re switching we’re gonna get to hear about your digital business, and we’re going to get to hear about the works you do with teams. Anyway, I just am really happy to have you from the uk. Welcome, Scott.

scott: Hi, Miriam. It’s great to be here.

Thanks for.

Absolutely. Okay, so why don’t you talk a little bit about, just in brief and then we’ll get more into it, but the two sides to your business.

[00:00:34] Digital Programs for the Police Force

Okay. So the first side is the digital aspect, so that’s. That came from my background. I spent 20 years in a police force in the UK called Dave and Somerset Police, and I headed up the digital team there and we built loads of great products, I would say great, of course.

But you know, lots of innovative products and solutions for the public. Things like reporting crime online some operational systems, covid solutions, all that kind of stuff. And it was. A real [00:01:00] eye-opener for me in terms of how I can offer value to people. And I left the police force and decided I wanted to go alone and help other police forces and other organizations.

So with a couple of my Ex members, I’ve set that up and the company’s called digital Rebels. And yeah, we’re focusing on building websites, bespoke solutions, so unique products and, and services for solving problems for people’s customers fundamentally. So that’s one. And then the other side is more around team high performance and coaching and teaching leadership skills.

That really helped me during my time in the police dealing with demand overload. Cuz you know, it’s an operational organization. There’s always a crisis, there’s always more work that you could ever do. And I found a way. To be able to manage that in a really effective way. And we’ll probably get onto that later about how, how we kind of did that.

Diminish the Chaos

But, but something I’m really passionate about is helping people who are struggling in what I call corporate chaos, where they’re overloaded, they’re going to [00:02:00] wasted time in pointless meetings. They can’t say no to people cuz they don’t want to, you know, let them down and they just perpetuate this problem of, of frankly chaos and they get stressed out.

So yeah, those are the, those are the two aspects

excellent. Well, and you cleared up something for me even as you were talking about your businesses because I knew that you had worked for the police force, but I wasn’t sure in what capacity.

So why don’t we start with, I’m very interested in this notion of teams and the reason I think that teams are so important, if you’re a business owner and you have a team of people, if they’re not getting along, your revenue is just in the toilet.

Or if, if they’re not getting along, somebody’s quitting because they can’t stand this other person and blah, blah. And you know, your company culture really struggles.

The Problem You Face

If you’re part of a team, like if you work in a corporate situation and you have a terrible person on your team, or you just know that life, life could be better That it’s, it’s [00:03:00] a real problem.

And I feel like honestly, every parent who has children, they, you have a team right there. And I think that any of the things that you’re gonna talk about would apply to every single one of those scenarios. So talk to me a little bit about teams and where you feel like you can help them.

scott: So, yeah, and, and if it probably help if I just start by saying a bit about where I went wrong in my career and how I how I was doing it wrong, so, so when I started, I won’t give you the full life history cuz we haven’t got time and your listeners will be very bored.

[00:03:33] Management vs Leadership

scott: But, but essentially when I, I got my first management job and I specifically say management rather than leadership. I made so many mistakes, and this feels like a confession, a cringe, but you know, I felt I had to have all the answers.

I felt that I needed to make sure my team were working hard and like pace the room and all this stuff that is just awful to think about now. But I was young and foolish and in my defense, , and, and that, that looking back, that [00:04:00] drove the wrong behavior in the team. You know, there was a lack of trust. They didn’t feel safe.

And they worked, but they clearly didn’t enjoy. And thankfully I, I learned hopefully quite rapidly to become more of a. And actually for me that’s more about creating a safe environment for the team. So safe for them to say, Scott, that’s a really stupid idea. and me as a leader, being humble to say I don’t have all the answers.

And I found myself in the latter part of my career in the police actually openly saying my team are much smarter than me. I’ve employed smart people with skills I don’t have, my job is not to tell them how to do their job. My job is. Given the environment to be safe and high performing, give them the problems that need solving, but then frankly get outta their way until they need me.

Safe To Challenge

And that for me is, has proved really, really powerful in terms of creating high performing teams. There’s lots of other factors, but for me that main one is safety for them to, you know, challenge me. To ask [00:05:00] for clarity but also to make mistakes and learn. And certainly in the space we were working in, in digital, it’s very easy to fall into a trap of making assumptions.

Oh yeah, if we build this product and we put this on the website, then the customers will love it. And you make those decisions in the boardroom or the office, but. The reality is, until you get something in people’s hands, you don’t really know what they’re gonna do with it.

So you have to be willing to learn from your mistakes.

And I always cite the example of, of Elon Musk, who obviously is quite controversial character, but he was doing all the work, you know, trying to land the SpaceX rockets so they could be reused. , every time they blew up, he didn’t sack the team. They used that data to say, right, what went wrong? How can we do better next time?

And for me, that’s really important as a mindset to say, you know, we need to test and learn, test or fail. And it’s safe for the team to do that. Does that make sense?

[00:05:51] Leading and Teaching

miriam: Oh, yes. I appreciate what you’re saying. Tremendously. I, I think I wanna bounce in and say, You know, okay. The [00:06:00] space where you did it wrong, you know that was a failure of someone above you who didn’t teach you.

And I think that we can graciously say, okay, you did it wrong, but also nobody led the way. And you’re taking that space and saying, well, I’m not gonna let that happen with anybody, from now on, and I’m sure that you are teaching, what does it mean to manage well?

So when you talk about creating safety, this is something that’s super important in our workplaces right now and in our homes.

How do you create a place, a space where someone can disagree with you and it doesn’t feel disrespectful on either end?

Yeah, I mean, I, I don’t know if it, I mean, it’s something that just organically happened over time with me. If I look back, I don’t think there was a sudden switch where I think it takes the leader.

I mean, it is, it’s gotta be start with the leader to, to be able to say, I don’t have all the answers. And to openly admit [00:07:00] that to their team. So that takes, I think, courage on the leader’s behalf and you know, the leader needs to feel safe doing that. But I think some people are hired wired to see that as a weakness.

Golden Rule

And I think it’s, it’s about. Setting that example up front with the team, so they go, oh, actually I feel safe to ask or to challenge or to question, and it’s gotta be in a respectful way. But I think, you know, there’s a phrase I, I learned on a training course a few years ago that really stuck with me. You, you’ve probably heard the phrase treat people how you want to be treated.

Actually there’s a better way and it’s treat people how they want to be treated. Yes. Because different people want to be treated in different ways. They have different needs, they have different levels of confidence, they have different things going on at home. You know, there’s all those dynamics at play in the work environment.

And quite often it’s the quiet ones that might have the best ideas. So I think a good leader also makes space for those quieter individuals and makes sure that everybody has a [00:08:00] say. And you know, so I could ramble on. But yeah, those are, those are my key. Kind of thoughts around that.

miriam: Yeah. I really appreciate that.

When you were talking about this, this space of humility and having courage, it makes me think that the leader has to have a, a good sense of self-esteem. Like they have to be okay in their own skin and their worth isn’t going to be based on the other person’s performance or the other person’s, you know, perfection or whatever.

How would a leader get there?

[00:08:34] Don’t Control, Lead

scott: So I think a lot of the problem is still, there’s quite a lot of what I’d call industrial aged thinking in, in some organizations and management. Because you know, if you go back to the industrial age, and I’m not a great history, so I may get some this wrong, but essentially, you know, the whole factory mindset where work was predictable, you had production lines, everyone knew what their role was.

They knew that they had a performance target if I deliver five widgets every hour or whatever it is, and the [00:09:00] management structure was clear and the boss called the shots and said, work harder, work faster. We live in a very different world now in the corporate world where work is is quite untangible, it’s quite difficult to put your finger on it.

People have very specialist skills, rolls, overlap. You get those kind of tensions and politics and things like that, and. If you’ve got a manager who’s still stuck in that industrial age mindset, they’re trying to control people in a way that’s just not realistic and it drives the wrong behavior, and that’s when you know people, I always say focus on outcomes rather than outputs, but you know, the traditional way of thinking is about volume of work and.

Less Talk, More Action

You just say, my developers, you know they, they come in and they type on keyboards a lot. Now, some development leaders will think if their developers aren’t working all day at the keyboard, they’re not achieving. But actually, I would say to my team, if you spend most of the day talking about the [00:10:00] problem, And a tiny part of the day doing the actual coding.

That’s fine with me cuz that’s just, the conversations are important. It’s the problem solving, it’s the teamwork. It’s not about volume of things. You type on your computer.

And I think the same applies to, you know, people in other jobs. You know, there’s this whole present presenteeism that I know people are struggling with in remote work.

You know, if I’m not, and I’ve felt this, when we started remote work during Covid, it was like, oh, the green dot, I need to be at my screen if I, you know, go for a, go to the toilet or go to get a. Someone, Scott’s not online. You know, we weren’t like that in the corporate when we were in the office. You’d go for a walk to between meetings. You’d get some fresh air and have a chat with someone, you know. But yeah, I might be going off a tangent here, but ,

[00:10:43] Nature of Work

miriam: no, I, I don’t think it’s a tangent. I think it actually is a really important question about the nature of work, which really matters whether you have a business or you’re, you know, part of an employment space, which is pretty much everybody who listens to my podcast.[00:11:00]

I, it, this, this notion of the industrialized work. I don’t know if you know of or follow Seth Godin, but he would talk about that. Yeah. He had his manifesto on education, and I think I probably read that five or six years ago. And it had never occurred to me that at least in the, , the education system is very much toward, you’ve got that main leader, here are all the rules.

Everybody make your widgets the same way, and it is.

It is not developing people for what our current work situation is, and all of those kind of jobs are being done by robots now, or mostly, or, you know, transitioning toward that space.

And so the question becomes, You know,

You have an inherent risk when you trust a team the way you are because there are the slackers who aren’t doing work and who are distracted and who are just. Taking advantage of the company. And there are the people who, if you [00:12:00] just gave them kind of the direction you wanna go, they would work their hearts out for you.

How do you talk to leaders about that kind of dichotomy between their team members?

scott: So one of the things that I learned, and again, a lesson I learned kind of midway through my career was, We, I did have one of those team members and I’ve obviously, you gotta be very careful, . But yeah, we had a team.

Individuals Impact the Team

So, so, so the, the nature of a lot of, again, I’m talking about developers, but the, there’s this kind right

here and we’re just gonna say for the sake of this, hypothetically speaking, yes,

of course. This Hypothe example developers, a lot of them like to just put headphones on and just do their. Whereas we know that to be more effective, you’ve get multiple brains solving a problem.

So we’d encourage people to sit together at the computer to work together on things. Now, we had one individual that, hypothetically, one individual might decide that they don’t wanna be part of, that they just wanna work on their own. And that caused tension. [00:13:00] The quality of their work wasn’t great. It created bugs in the software.

It was, you know, and I, I let it go too long.. Unaddressed because I wanted to be liked and you know, still quite early on as a leader and I thought, oh, I don’t wanna have this difficult conversation with this person. In the end I did cuz it got really bad and but I let, my regret is I let that fester too long and it actually, they then decided to leave the organization, thankfully, the day they left.

The, the atmosphere in the room changed and I hadn’t realized that. To me it was a massive lesson about how much one individual could impact a an entire team. Yeah. And yeah, so there’s a big regret. I didn’t address that sooner. So, so I encourage, and it’s hard in some organizations to get rid of those bad eggs.

[00:13:44] Be Brave and Act

scott: I don’t wanna sound harsh, but you know, some people just are lazy and or don’t want to work and just want to coast and hide behind others. So I think that’s, again, I’d encourage leaders to be brave and, and actually have those tough conversations. But I get that they are [00:14:00] very much dependent on how much the organization can support them.

So certainly the police, my experience. In the police. Being a public sector organization, sometimes it’s quite hard to get rid of, you know, difficult people. It’s, you can’t just, in the private sector, you just go, right, don’t come in tomorrow. , . But it’s not, it’s, it’s not so easy in the public sector. You’ve gotta go through rules and regulations and they can sue you for, you know, unfair dismissal.

And it’s just a minefield that I think sometimes organizations are afraid to even go into. So what happens is, I’m gonna be really harsh, but this, it’s like a cancer in the organization then that just sits there, spreads and is not dealt with. So I think it’s really serious. If you’ve got some really bad behavior, it just needs to be dealt with because more people suffer as a result.

So, yeah, long answer I think encourage the leaders to actually just be brave and, and try and deal with those problems.

Learn from Mistakes

miriam: Right. How do leaders learn that kind of brave? because you’re right, it is difficult and [00:15:00] honestly, even in the private sector, depending on which state you’re in here, you have to document things up the wazoo so that you know it’s, you know, all taken care of so you can’t be sued and all of that.

Mm-hmm. , how do leaders learn how to be brave?

scott: Good question. I think, well, certainly the life experience for me helped. I. Being open and reflecting and learning from your mistakes, I think is a good way. Obviously you can do lots of reading and listen to great podcasts like this and, you know, get inspiration from others.

So, you know, try and find what good leadership looks like. There’s loads of things out there, you know, YouTube, it is, et cetera. But, but I think nothing beats life experience, but you have to have the self-awareness to, to say where you went wrong and what you would do differently next time. Take that time out.

To just do a bit of a personal retrospective and say, you know, what did I learn? Could I have handled that any differently? What would I do differently next time? I [00:16:00] think that that self-reflection is gonna be key.

[00:16:02] Coaching to Grow

miriam: Yeah, I would agree. I also think, I mean, you and I are both in forms of coaching. It really helps to have somebody outside of you saying, okay, what is it you need to do?

I am here standing next to you. I’m cheering you on. I know you can do it for these reasons.

Okay. Now that you’ve done it, let’s talk about it. Where did you, you know, Excel, what would you have done differently if you had a do-over you? It’s, you just can’t under. The power of having someone in your corner like that.

miriam: Mm-hmm. . Okay. You have a motto on your website, do less but deliver more. What does that mean?

So there’s extra bits to that, but yeah. So it’s do less of what doesn’t matter and do more of what does. So for me, this is, this is kind of key and it’s become, that’s why I came up with that. I think everything revolves around this.

So it’s all about accepting that there’s always more work that you can never [00:17:00] do. There will always be more work that you can never do. So all you can do is prioritize and. Unfortunately, in some organizations, the bosses say, well, everything’s a priority. And if you look up the definition of priority in the dictionary, that’s not possible.

If you can only have one priority by definition, but you know everything’s a priority or can you just squeeze this in as well? And that’s when you know, people get overloaded and stressed out, and it’s not good for the organization or the customer.

So what I help people focus on is, is. We can’t do everything.

[00:17:31] Prioritizing

miriam: Okay? We need to get visibility of work to be able to understand how to prioritize. So don’t leave work stuck in your inbox or on post-it notes, or leave your desk or on whiteboards. It has to be in a, in a single place where you can then look at it and make judgements on what’s the most important thing you should be working on next, but also keeping on top of that and continually reviewing.

And there’s loads of other aspects to that, but the, but the key thing is do less of time wasting. Do more [00:18:00] of value.

Two Types of Work

miriam: There’s a guy called Cal Newport. He’s got a couple of books. One is called A World Without Email, and he talks about two different types of work in there, which I blatantly stole from my training because I, it was really powerful.

And there’s basically two types of work. One is work execution. So that’s doing the actual work that delivers the value. So that’s what you’re employed to. And then this workflow, which is everything else. So that’s talking about work, that’s having meetings, it’s having email conversations, it’s having project plan.

And unfortunately for a lot of organizations, they spend most of and staff, they spend most of the time in workflow mode talking about work rather than actually doing it. And he says meetings and emails are talking about work, not doing it. So what I do is help teams say, actually we’re gonna do less, is do less of the workflow stuff.

You wanna optimize that and do more of the work execution time. And that’s where I managed to get my team within the police. I’ve managed to protect them so much. Probably 90% of their time was work [00:19:00] execution, and that was pretty rare in the organization.

Most of the other old parts of the organization were stuck in emails and meetings and and so on.

Determine the Key Activity

So yeah, those two things are really fundamental for me is actually do less of. Wasting stuff and do more of what matters. And there’s all sorts of benefits. One, it’s good for the customer and the organization.

It’s a no-brainer, but it’s also good for the individual. Mm-hmm. . So they come into work and feel that they did something of value that day, rather than go in with great intentions, get totally lost in the inbox, and meetings the day finishes and they go, I didn’t actually achieve anything I intended to do.

It’s just been a waste of my time. And over time, that wears people out. So, yeah, I think it’s, you know, give people the space and the ability to do what they’re employed to do. Yeah, it sounds so obvious, but it’s quite rare from, in my experience, ,

it is extraordinarily rare. I have practiced maybe the last year or two writing down.

What is the key activity I need to do today that will move my business forward? Because I recognize exactly what you’re talking about. [00:20:00] You can spend all day in your email inbox, and I have seen even in myself, you know, you get rid of this one, get rid of this one. Oh, I don’t actually know what to do with this one.

Hmm. I’ll skip it and I’ll come back and you do that with four or five, 15 or 20, and pretty soon you just have done nothing but really shuffle stuff around and meetings are just the bane of all of that. I, I really wish that in school. Instead of some of the stuff that we all had to memorize that we can now Google.

[00:20:32] Facilitating Meetings Well

miriam: I wish they had taught, people, taught all of us how to facilitate a meeting elegantly, you know, where you, I mean, meetings can actually get some stuff done, but so much of the time they’re just a huge time suck.

I appreciate what you’re saying about a person coming into work and in effect, just for lack of a better word, shoveling crap from this pile to this pile and then from [00:21:00] this pile to this pile, and they, they don’t end up feeling like, Was the oxygen I breathed today worth the activity I did, you know?

Yeah. That’s a very hopeless space. Yeah. And if you’re an employer, it feels crazy- making because you have people there and you’re paying salaries and you’re like, where is the product?

scott: There’s so much inefficiency and then, oh, we, we need more staff. So then you end up hiring more staff. So I think the stat in Cal’s book is, Three.

I think the average worker, kind of corporate worker spends three days a month in pointless meetings. Yeah, that’s crazy. Just thinking of how much time, how much more productive the organization would be. And again, and then we just pick up on, I always catch myself when I say productive because you can be productive and deliver no value.

Doing the Right Thing

So actually it’s don’t just obsess about productivity. You need to know if you’re doing the right thing. And that’s, again, thinking about outcome. [00:22:00] Is this what the customer needs? Can I get evidence? This is what the customer needs, rather than just, I’m doing it because the bosses said to do it in a board meeting.

They thought that would be a good idea. Let’s just do that. And then you waste hours, months, and hundreds of thousands of dollars for something that was an ego driven project rather than something based on what customers actually need. I’ll get off on a tangent there. That really annoys me, so I don’t wanna get good.

Don’t get me started on that.

[00:22:27] Have Other Passions

miriam: We could get each other off on tangents. I am sure. Okay. On your website too, you had something that it sounded like you did in your spare time. I was totally un unaware of this, and it looks like it involves cars.

scott: So to it’s, yeah, so it’s a hobby. It has been for a long time. It’s a little bit sad, but there’s a, so that’s two, especially a Spanish car manufacturer or two companies cuz they split into two separate brands and they make quite sporty cars. And I got into them when I got my first ever [00:23:00] car.

I had one I’m probably on. 14th Seat, well, copra now. And yeah, there’s basically an online community that I joined a long time ago. It’s been running for 20 years now. And probably about 15 years ago I took over running it and yeah, we got about 50,000 members and online forum, social media, people discuss it, their cars, it’s really geeky.

There are women as well as men. It’s not just men. And The best bit is I get to go on car launches in Spain, all expenses paid, and write reviews and drive cars around racetracks. So it’s a, it’s a fun hobby to have. Yeah.

That’s pretty awesome. What have you learned as you have been kind of navigating, like running this forum?

How much time and effort it takes is one . So. Mm-hmm. , luckily we’ve got, I’ve got quite a few volunteers who help me, who are just passionate again as a hobby. So they’ll, one of, one of them takes care of the Instagram and we’re quite good on that.

Engage People

Sometimes I can’t go to car launches, so [00:24:00] one of them’s gotta take one for the team and fly out to a nice hotel.

And unfortunately you don’t get to see much of Spain. You’re literally whiting in a hotel into a car and then back up, which I’ve done it in one day before. Sometimes it’s like, you know, you go to Spain and then you’re coming in over again. I was like, I was in Spain at lunchtime today, even though, you know, dunno how good people’s geography are from UK to Spain, but it’s a bit of a.

miriam: It’s probably about a three hour flight, I think. Yeah. And what I’ve learned is just, you know, how to build communities, how to engage people a bit more. And, and the key thing is, if you know this, the community kind of looks after itself because it’s something people are passionate about or they put time into, they help each other, you know, someone’s got a problem.

There’s always someone up there to say, oh, I solve this in this way. People have put like online guides and videos together to help each other out. So I’ve just learned about, you know, how if people are passionate about something, Willing to put in the effort and not get paid for it, which is, you know, Doesn’t have, it’s pretty, doesn’t be

scott: about money.

It’s pretty cool. Yeah. It doesn’t have to all be about money. And so it really brings up an important point [00:25:00] about I mean I, we haven’t really talked about the digital part of your income stream, which I know is significant. And I think for the sake of time we’re just gonna say you also have this other income stream.

[00:25:12] Why Just One Thing?

miriam: And I think that a lot of times people are caught in. Set of, I have to do one thing. What is the one thing I’m gonna do that’s gonna support my lifestyle? And whether they’re an entrepreneur and they’re building their business or they are working for someone else, either way, I think it takes a little bit of stretching your brain to.

Say, well, why does it have to be one thing? Why can’t it be more things? And after you have one or two things, then I just love that you have this hobby that also probably takes a fair amount of time and energy, but it brings you joy. I mean, like you had a big smile on your face when you’re talking about it, and it sounds like you meet people maybe that are different than in your other, you know, work activities.

[00:26:00] So what would you say to people. Pursuing a hobby and or the, the time management of you know, everything that work and family takes and then this other thing.

scott: Yeah. So it is a bit of a juggling act to be honest. I didn’t, I kind of fell into the, splitting my business into two kind of came about by accident.

I, I was just gonna focus on the digital, but I gave a presentation at a police conference about my journey. Three police force representatives came up and said, you have to come and help us if you did this in your police force. So then I, my training was born from that, but yeah, again, it’s back to that priority question and, and, and trying to say actually, where’s, where’s the best place of, for me to put my effort?

Get Help From Others

But it’s also being open to getting help from others. So I’m, I’m in that kind of entrepreneur trap where I’ve gotta do it all. But then I haven’t really, cuz there’s online ways you can get help. So I’ve just hired a virtual assistant to help me out. Nice. I’ve got some ex team members who are helping me cuz they’re, you know, they want to help and they [00:27:00] can see the benefit in the business and if it grows then they’ll be part of that.

So, yeah, don’t, just, don’t try and do it alone, but also make sure you take space for downtime cuz there’s a danger to just keep working and burn yourself out. So as, as long as you’re in a place where you can just do enough each day and move the needle a bit. You’ll be all right. But yeah, the danger is I’m a terrible procrastinator, so, you know, I, I’ve fall into that trap.

Sometimes it’s easier to do the, oh look, a shiny distraction I can go and deal with and not do the hard thing. So it’s, it is having discipline as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Can I ask you a coachy question since I’m a coach? You can. Okay. What. What was the space that kept you from getting the va, the virtual assistant.

And how do you imagine this pushing your, your business forward?

[00:27:55] Delegation and Perfectionism

scott: So why did I only do it recently? Is that what I asking? Yes, yes. I [00:28:00] felt I didn’t have enough work, I think was part of it. But there was also probably a bit of perfectionism going on, if I’m being honest. Saying like, oh, you know what, if they do it differently to me.

But then I reminded myself that’s how I was for 20 years in the police. I, I, you know, I gave the team, I put myself at the bottom of the org chart and said, you know, you are the skilled people, so, I needed to remember what I did and say, why don’t I outsource this stuff to somebody who can do it better than me?

And is actually excited by the stuff that I’m not excited about . So I think that’s how I just came to that realization rapidly.

miriam: We’re about a month in and she’s like, you haven’t done this. I’m chasing you on this. So actually it’s quite good that she’s holding me to account, so I’m quite enjoying that cuz Yeah. Otherwise I’d probably just meander, I’ll put it off, I’ll do it tomorrow.

So yeah, she’s helping giving me some of that discipline.

Sense of  Relief

I just love that you did this. If I understand right, most advice for businesses is that your number two hire is either a salesperson [00:29:00] or an assistant, depending on what your business is.

And it seems like most of the time, Entrepreneurs, like you said, just feel like they can do it all themselves and this moment when they hire an assistant, and sometimes it takes a couple to find the right one, but when you find the right person, oh, this thing like lifts off your shoulders and it’s like, why didn’t I do this? Sooner.

What do you feel like your next level of business or personal development is?

So the business side, so the digital stuff has taken a lot longer than I would’ve liked but I’m very close to getting the first product out with.

[00:29:37] Where to Next?

miriam: So I think the next phase is Get that off the ground for, for the digital for the for the training side. I’m, I need to move the upper level. I need to get more awareness of my training, and hopefully this podcast will help. I’ve been speaking at conferences, but again, not enough. I need to get out there more.

And I probably need to do a bit more, setting myself online, do some more videos and, and sharing and that kind of stuff on LinkedIn and YouTube. So I, I need to just do a [00:30:00] bit more of business development is, is where my, my weakness is, and I need to get better at that.

It might not be weaknesses, it might be just like there’s only so much of you and only 24 hours in a day. You know? Yeah. There’s just a limit to when it can all be done and yeah. . Some people have, you know, large budgets and they hire a bunch of people and they get stuff cranked out pretty quickly. Other people do it a little bit more organically and that’s all good.

Sheldrick Wildlife Fund

Well, Scott, this has been just a blast. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation and I just enjoy you as a human being.

And I’m hoping that we’ll have an opportunity maybe in six months or a year to do round two. I think it would be fun to kind of catch up and see, see where you’re go, what you’re doing, and how your business is progressing.

I had mentioned before we started that we like to gift you with a donation in your name and you had chosen the Sheldrick Wildlife Fund.

We’re going to be adopting a little baby girl elephant [00:31:00] in your name , this is an elephant whose mom has been poached and they will take care of it for 15 years or so and reintegrate it into the wild.

We’re looking for ways on this podcast to do good.

Every possible direction by exposing you to that charity, by helping out the charity, by exposing our listeners to your good information.

Anyway, so why don’t we end with you just sharing how people can find you and find your podcast, and then we’ll be done.

[00:31:29] Where to Find Scott

miriam: Cool. So yeah, you can, my website is scott fulton.co.uk.

My company is Digital Rebels, so search for that and it should come up.

And the podcast is called Rebel Diaries and I interview guests like Miriam and others focused on how to do better and achieve more at work. I’m also on LinkedIn and yeah, various social media sites. But yeah, if you search for me, I’d generally come up.

Thanks, Miriam.

scott: I will, I’ll put the links in and it’ll all be good and we’ll look forward to another conversation in the near distant [00:32:00] future.

Thanks again, Scott.

End Credits

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Music by Tom Sherlock.

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